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    • Substring
      Substring last edited by Substring

      @ironic all of your posts give such a headache lol But at least we move forward 🙂

      But if i want to sum up what you wrote :

      • we need to keep the 4:3 ratio for consoles
      • it's only worth with integer scale
      • The integer scale resolution is the same for any console, but must be calculated according to the screen resolution :
        • 1080p : 1280x960
        • 5:4 (DMT 35 1280x1024) : 1280x960 too
        • 720p : 960x720

      I guess that sets it for consoles ?

      If so, here are the margins left for each mode :

      • 1080p : top/bottom : 60px, left/right : 320px
      • 1280x1024 : top/bottom : 32px, left/right : 0px
      • 720p: top/bottom : 0px, left/right : 160px

      1080p has space left everywhere
      720p just has 160px left on left as well as on right => we can't let retroarch shrink a 1080p overlay
      1280x1024 as 32px left on top as well as on bottom => worthless

      What about arcade (forget NeoGeo) ? Looks like those rules fail as we can't set a generic viewport : Mame handles the real resolution of games, and nothing is stretched to 4:3 unless forced or native ? That would mean a per game viewport

      One more thing : i thought PP and IntegerScale are the same ... but no ? PP is when we strictly respect the original resolution without stretching it to fit 4:3 ?

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      • supernature2k
        supernature2k last edited by

        I dont agree with this: The integer scale resolution is the same for any console,

        Pi powered NES | Gameboy HD | RecalStation | RecalDrive
        Upvote messages if it has been useful ;)

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        • Substring
          Substring last edited by

          @supernature2k indeed you are right ... As it depends on the native console resolution stretched to 4:3

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          • Nachtgarm
            Nachtgarm last edited by Nachtgarm

            @supernature2k @subs

            Here are the screenshots, we were talking about earlier:

            System: SNES
            Monitor: 19" TFT LCD
            Connection: HDMI -> DVI
            TV Mode: DMT 35 DVI
            Game: F-ZERO
            Screenshots: raspi2png

            Option 1

            Shader: Scanlines
            Integer Scale: OFF
            Smooth: ON
            Ratio: Auto
            0_1470242953462_fzero2.png

            Option 2

            Shader: Scanlines
            Integer Scale: ON
            Smooth: ON
            Ratio: Auto
            0_1470242975263_fzero1.png

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            • screech
              screech last edited by screech

              I don't want to bother you... What you are doing seem very complicated to mee ^^

              But maybe I can help you.

              UXS can now generate Picture with Resolution and Ratio configuration.
              Maybe it can scrape a picture dedicated to overlay.

              Something basic with wheel or Marquee (maybe 3D or 2D Box) but autogenerated for every game (Console & Arcade)

              (Just to let you know this is thing UXS can do in a very near futur : Teaser )

              Clean your Romset with Universal ROM Cleaner
              Scrape your Romset with Universal XML Scraper

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              • ironic
                ironic last edited by

                @subs

                All you wrote is ok.
                If we want to use overlay all around the game screen, it's better to use Interger Scale.
                But if we want bigger or thinner overlay, we must disable Interger Scale.
                As several consoles haven't square pixels, we must disable Integer scale.

                First, we must do a choice. What do we want ?

                • The best quality with vertical integer scale ?
                • The bigger screen with 4/3 ratio respect ?
                • The more space possible for overlay ?

                Is the overlay will be enabled game by game ?
                Or console by console ?

                I don't know what people wants.
                Most people are not interested in all that we say here. They just want nice quality games and fun.

                For Arcade games, is more difficult.
                There's several resolution but we can keep 4/3 aspect ratio (or 3/4).

                Another problem is RetroArch crop the game screen.
                Some NeoGeo game use 320x224 and other 304x224 but RetroArch resize the screen.
                Some game (like Sega M.S.) have a "no pixel area border" on left.

                I think we must define a generic viewport of 4/3 with enough space for overlay.

                Pixel Perfect and Integer Scale are 2 differents things (for me).
                Integer Scale means that all honrizontal pixels have same size, all vertical pixels have same size,
                But honrizontal size and vertical size of a pixel can be different.
                On my Bartop, one NES pixel is 5 native pixels (honrizontal) and 4 native pixels (vertical).

                Pixel Perfect means all pixels have same size, honrizontal = vertical.
                Pixels are square.

                Recalbox wiki say Integer Scale = Pixel Perfect.
                Why not. It's ok for me. But i prefer use Interger Scale.
                Pixel Perfect is for browser or photoshop users...

                @screech
                Yes, it's very complicated.
                Shall we try and compare quality overlays.
                I will try your new UXS soon...

                Rpi2/Rpi3 - LCD/CRT- NES30 Pro-iBUFFALO

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                • Substring
                  Substring last edited by

                  This is how I see things according to what I've understood so far :

                  • overlays without integer scale is as easy as killing babies with axes : consoles (not handheld) will be stretched to max size (which is screen height * 4/3). Handhelds are natively pixel perfect, so it's the same story almost. Any overlay for non IS game will just fill a pair of side borders
                  • using overlays on 1280x1024 screens is worthless but for vertical shmup
                  • I still think overlays are much more worth when integer scale is on
                  • handheld consoles should be easy for there IS screen resolution
                  • nothing is set yet on how to manage arcade
                  • the aim os to make some overlay models for each console, for a few different screens, even if i think 1080p and 720p are the only worth ones
                  • integer scale is, as i understood, the fact of multiplying both the emulator resolution by a single integer. It has no impact on scaling the video to 4:3
                  • for arcade, i think we should keep the original rom resolution (or smhumps would be stretched) => Pixel Perfect mode for arcade. One of my next tasks for arcade is to list all mame supported games with their resolution. Haven't checked yet how it is stored on fba

                  Of course, this is my personnal opinion. I think we put things plain, time to decide ^^

                  For consoles, based on the link i posted earlier on the libretro forum, this is what i suggest as resolutions :

                  • SNES : 299x224
                  • Megadrive : 299x224
                  • NES : 299x224
                  • SMS : 256x192
                  • FDS : 299x224
                  • NeoGeo : 299x224 (though i wonder, looks like it crops the image)

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                  • ironic
                    ironic last edited by

                    299/224 = 1.3348
                    It's the nearest 1.3333 CRT (4/3) aspect ratio.

                    If our monitors have a square pixel, everything is good.
                    If the pixels are not square, we must recalculate the resolution.

                    On my LCD1280x1024 IBM ThinkVision 17 "5/4:
                    X = 340mm
                    Y = 271mm

                    340/1280 = 0.265
                    271/1024 = 0.264
                    A pixel is 0.26mm x 0.26mm

                    We can say that the pixels are square.
                    Somebody can calculate pixel size on 16/9 monitor?

                    Various resolutions will be used:
                    1280x1024, 1280x720, 1920x1080

                    The basis for the resolution is 4/3 of 299/224.
                    With a vertical Integer Scale and the largest image:

                    1280/1024:
                    299/224 × 4 = 1196x896
                    text alternatif

                    1280 * 720:
                    299/224 x 3 = 897x672
                    text alternatif

                    1920/1080:
                    299/224 × 4 = 1196x896
                    text alternatif

                    With this resolution, image quality will be the best, with and Without scanline shader.
                    And give area for an overlay.

                    Arcade games resolution and other:
                    Arcade Infos Games

                    For arcade games, overlays are very differents. It's impossible to set a resolution.
                    Each game must have his resolution.

                    Rpi2/Rpi3 - LCD/CRT- NES30 Pro-iBUFFALO

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                    • Substring
                      Substring last edited by

                      Very nice job ironic.

                      Concernning lcd monitors square pixels, let it be a dogma : they are square, can't bother for every recalboxer ...

                      For arcade, as I said earlier, the aim of the topic is to go step by step, and find some rules and scales for overlays. I'd love to offer some masks (png / psd) for people (like @screech) who want to generate overlays

                      so far we haven't spoken yet of handhelds, but they all have a lcd screen, just need to find their resolutions, and their integer scale values for 1080p and 5:4

                      @ironic the SMS is the only one with a resolution different from 299x224 : 256/192, which is 4/3. So this perticular overlay should be slightly different than others. We also means quite some consoles, namely vectrex as you've worked quite much on its overlays

                      As, quite often, most consoles have several resolutions, should we force a 4/3 custom ratio in retroarch or can wa consider afterall that those consoles would anyway render to 299x224 ?

                      For the pixel aspect ratio of any screen : you can do it much faster. The panel size ratio MUST equal the resolution aspect ratio.
                      In yur case, you just pray that 340/1280 = 271/1024 => 1280/1024 = 340/271. 5/4 = 1.25, 340/271 = 1.262

                      Anyway, no need to check monitors, that's a user problem that we can't solve through recalbox as it depends on parameters (the real lcd panel size) that we can't programmatically get.

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                      • ironic
                        ironic last edited by

                        Arcade Overlays :

                        Let's try to scale an overlay :
                        Dragon Ninja (256x240)

                        This is a pixel perfect 256x240
                        text alternatif

                        To see how it really must be, scale it to 4/3 (320x240)
                        text alternatif

                        The Bezel is square, how can we scale it to fit 4/3, 5/4 or 16/9 screen ?
                        text alternatif

                        I don't know.
                        Here, the game screen is very very small...
                        text alternatif

                        We can find some 16/9 truncated Bezels for 16/9 as :
                        (This one is 1.32 Ratio)
                        text alternatif

                        Rpi2/Rpi3 - LCD/CRT- NES30 Pro-iBUFFALO

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                        • Substring
                          Substring last edited by

                          The viewport of the bezel is too small. Such a game 320x240 once stretched to 4:3 will be "integer-scaled".
                          For 1280x1024 : factor 4 => 1280x960
                          For 1920x1080 : factor 4 => 1280x960, but with bigger borders

                          This is how I wee things. This example prooves once again that 1280x1024 is not worth for overlays unless you want the viewport to look like a stamp

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                          • paradadf
                            paradadf Staff last edited by

                            https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-libretro/pull/53

                            There has been some corrections about aspect ratio in mame2003. This last pr reverts some stuff. I suppose it is relevant so I post it here.

                            If your question was answered, please mark it as solved: Topic Tools -> Ask a question + Topic Tools -> Mark as Solved

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                            • codyv59
                              codyv59 last edited by

                              1_1475323434536_1( 1280x1024).png 0_1475323434536_1( 1280x720).png

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                              • ironic
                                ironic last edited by

                                Oh la la, très très jolie Overlay/Bezel, bravo 😉

                                Rpi2/Rpi3 - LCD/CRT- NES30 Pro-iBUFFALO

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                                • Substring
                                  Substring last edited by

                                  our friends over at HFS made a nice wiki and if you go to http://wiki.hfsplay.fr/doku.php?id=tutos:install_hfsbox15k#l_installation_des_drivers_runtimes_directxand scroll a little down, you have all resolutions for CRT consoles. The rest of the topic is very interesting to read too, despite being in French

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                                  • Substring
                                    Substring last edited by

                                    The complete list of MAME 0.78 resolutions / La liste complete des resolutions MAME à mettre en exergue avec https://forum.recalbox.com/topic/3475/recalbox-sur-tv-crt-en-rgb/308

                                    1020x1020
                                    1024x768
                                    1024x772
                                    1024x780
                                    1024x800
                                    1024x808
                                    1024x840
                                    1024x848
                                    1024x912
                                    1040x880
                                    1050x900
                                    1056x864
                                    160x200
                                    208x232
                                    224x224
                                    224x232
                                    224x240
                                    232x224
                                    240x176
                                    240x192
                                    240x216
                                    240x224
                                    240x232
                                    240x240
                                    240x248
                                    240x256
                                    248x208
                                    248x224
                                    248x240
                                    248x256
                                    250x280
                                    254x232
                                    256x184
                                    256x192
                                    256x200
                                    256x208
                                    256x216
                                    256x222
                                    256x224
                                    256x230
                                    256x232
                                    256x234
                                    256x240
                                    256x248
                                    256x256
                                    256x288
                                    256x448
                                    256x480
                                    260x240
                                    264x224
                                    264x232
                                    272x216
                                    272x224
                                    272x232
                                    272x236
                                    272x256
                                    276x240
                                    280x216
                                    280x224
                                    280x240
                                    284x240
                                    288x208
                                    288x216
                                    288x224
                                    288x256
                                    292x230
                                    292x240
                                    296x224
                                    296x240
                                    300x260
                                    304x224
                                    304x232
                                    304x240
                                    304x248
                                    304x256
                                    318x222
                                    320x152
                                    320x200
                                    320x204
                                    320x224
                                    320x232
                                    320x240
                                    320x256
                                    320x416
                                    336x238
                                    336x239
                                    336x240
                                    338x236
                                    338x240
                                    352x240
                                    352x256
                                    360x224
                                    360x240
                                    360x244
                                    368x224
                                    368x232
                                    368x240
                                    368x448
                                    376x224
                                    376x240
                                    376x248
                                    380x224
                                    384x224
                                    384x240
                                    384x254
                                    384x256
                                    384x280
                                    394x240
                                    396x256
                                    400x248
                                    400x254
                                    400x256
                                    404x254
                                    410x256
                                    416x224
                                    420x400
                                    432x224
                                    448x224
                                    448x240
                                    464x224
                                    480x440
                                    480x480
                                    488x384
                                    496x232
                                    496x384
                                    496x480
                                    500x440
                                    512x192
                                    512x224
                                    512x236
                                    512x238
                                    512x240
                                    512x256
                                    512x288
                                    512x352
                                    512x384
                                    512x400
                                    512x448
                                    512x480
                                    520x400
                                    540x400
                                    580x400
                                    580x500
                                    580x570
                                    638x240
                                    640x232
                                    640x240
                                    640x480
                                    672x240
                                    720x768
                                    768x240
                                    832x448
                                    864x224
                                    900x600
                                    

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                                    • TheRealFox
                                      TheRealFox last edited by TheRealFox

                                      Can someone explain ( a little tuto), please, how to save overlays for every rom separately in mame core, in order to initiate automaticaly with the previsously choosen one on the rom load?

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